Chapter 7.0 - Calling in the Coroner - OOC

I don't want to retcon because we are already at this point, but the plan was to meet them head on in the trap we had already set for them - not give up our attack position to head into the cramped hallway and wait for them to pass.

Even though we have the element of surprise, now we have to file back out and re-set up to bring the bolters/las cannon to bear etc.

Please file my complaint to Sheila in HR.

Initiative: 1d10+7 9

Iron and Metal wrote:

I don't want to retcon because we are already at this point, but the plan was to meet them head on in the trap we had already set for them - not give up our attack position to head into the cramped hallway and wait for them to pass.

Even though we have the element of surprise, now we have to file back out and re-set up to bring the bolters/las cannon to bear etc.

Please file my complaint to Sheila in HR.

Initiative: 1d10+7 9

Sheila is on vacation, good luck with that.

Initiative is 13

AgB (5) + Roll (8 ) = 13

https://orokos.com/roll/976594

^^ Gurk, per our Squad Mode Ability, you get +20 agility, which relates to all AG rolls including initiative.

15 instead of 13 - Bleda is MOVIN.


@Dreeadnought, yeah I figured as much. But you're here - want to throw out an initiative roll?

https://orokos.com/roll/977008 = Initiative 17

(Grimnir is not going into squad mode as he loses his wolf senses n stuff).

I like that. It really forces the player to choose how much of a loner the Wolf Scout is when in a Kill Team.

Fuck this roll... Lascannon must be bulky AF for Khol.

2 + 2 + 6 = 10

https://orokos.com/roll/977122

ok. I rolled for everyone who hasn't already. Updating the IC now. First up is definitely Grimnir.

They are 10 meters away.
Shooting the nob or heavy shoota requires a -40 BS test w/o range or aim modifiers. Making your way to them requires a -30 WS test w/o modifiers. Failure on these tests mean you do not get any futher attacks, but a +10 if you attempt the same action again on your next turn. Passed BS tests inflicts an attack immediately, a passed WS test means you will make it to the enemy through the throng.
Current horde modifier (30)

I don't see Cassiel on initiative, but he's at 9 (tied with Lucius).

Sorry, I wrote it down on my notes, but didnt add it when typing it up. Will fix.

Shoot tha shoota!

Hunter of Aliens [+10 BS], Bolter Mastery [+10 BS], Master Signature Wargear [+10 to hit], Exceptional Crafted Weapon [+5BS], half aim [+10 to hit], Red-dot, [+10 to hit], Half aim [+10 to hit] = +65 - 4o = net +25

Half aim to the head
Hit roll https://orokos.com/roll/977143 = 2 vs 89
dmg https://orokos.com/roll/977144 = 30, 4 pen to the head.

I'll IC in a bit, suppose to be prepping for a work meeting

being as hes a normal unit and not the horde, he still gets a dodge (that would apply to you as well.)
95 is a fail.
He takes 22 damage. he's still standing. I was looking at the Nob and not the heavy Shoota. He's taking crit damage and has 2 levels of fatigue

Gimme some IC for a headshot that doesn't kill.
(Also, you counted half aim 2 times)

Bleda?

^He has a Signum link right? Should get +20 for double team

Iron and Metal wrote:

^He has a Signum link right? Should get +20 for double team

How would a link apply if only one person has attacked so far?

The link doesn't work based on how many people are attacking. If we can see the enemy, then they are all being calibrated and targeted. What you're saying might be true is Grimnir was off fighting a battle somewhere else, but we're all together.

I'm going to try something different this time rather than just straight damage output. Namely see if I can knock them down and keep them down for a while with "The Howling Wind" Psychic Power.

Plan is to knock them back and down and so prevent them from actively making trouble for us while you guys just kills them off

Yes, it might make our shooting a bit less effective but I'd like to try this out and see how effective this is in practice against a horde enemy.

IC: Bleda spreads his arms wide and for a moment there's shivering in the air before him before a wind strikes out with the force of a howling storm against the Orks. Taking hold of the Xenos forms the wind tears at any loose part of equipment and pushes them backwards.  

Action: Full cast psychic power "The Howling Wind" (First Founding, page 34) Unfettered

Willpower roll

70 vs 77 (WP 57 + PsyB 20)

https://orokos.com/roll/977189

Let's see if this plan and power works like I think/hope it should.

https://orokos.com/roll/977190
-25 str test, failed
Reminder that we're using the psychic rules from dark heresy 2e. Unfettered, fettered are now 1 power level where u choose your psy rating up to your max. Push let's you get beyond that at a risk.
So I think a good effect from this on a horde is reducing the amount of attackS they can have. They were at 5. Now they're at 3.
Next is sapiens.

Thanks for the info, GM. I would suggest that this is added to the House Rules thread for ease of reference in the future.

Talking about using DH2 rules for casting psychic powers.

PS: Don't forget tha that the non-Horde Orks should also roll. The Nob is probably going to make it but his friend with the big shoota might not.

Hydrako is going to shoot a frag at the Commando Nob and half move towards him.

BS 43, -40 test, +10 single shot, No other mods I can think off yet (no signum link), =<13
54 = 5 DoF
https://orokos.com/roll/977236

Half move towards commando

IC
At the behest of the tech marine, Hydrako had donned his helmet to avoid the need to hold his breath if there was a sudden vacuum. He lumbered out into the corridor to impose himself between the squad and the majority of the orcs, making himself the focus of their attention. His teeth began gnashing and grinding as he squared up with the ranks of greenskins. He saw the Wolf scout lance a shoota with a well placed shot before locking on to the silhouette of a Nob amongst the rabble. There. You will do. Using his signum, he logged the target and attempted to lock onto it with his shoulder mounted grenade launcher, feeding the data to the rest of the squad. There was a throaty *chunk* sound as the frag was lobbed into the pack, followed by an explosion, but the swirling mass of bodies obscured a solid lock and he missed his target. Hydrako tisk'ed to himself and engaged the engine of the breaching augur. Come test yourself, filth he hissed into the squad vox as he lumbered forward to meet the xenos.

Gurkhal wrote:

Thanks for the info, GM. I would suggest that this is added to the House Rules thread for ease of reference in the future.

Talking about using DH2 rules for casting psychic powers.

PS: Don't forget tha that the non-Horde Orks should also roll. The Nob is probably going to make it but his friend with the big shoota might not.

Right, they both fall.

Heath, what's the Nob's size bonus? I imagine that would still matter, horde or no.

I put it in the initiative track for easy reference, 30.

IC
Grimnir scanned the green tide looking for priority targets; he easily picked out the orc boss and the weapons specialist. The boss was armoured so more suited for Khol. "Khol, I'm targeting the weapons specialist" he said over direct comms.

He lined up the shot, it was difficult with the jostling crowd of orcs and as he squeezed the trigger about to put a bolt through the orcs eye another of the green scum blocked the shot. Grimnir tried to adjust but it was to late. The bolt fired, it still hit but deflecting off a piece of metal from the offending orc it turned his shot from a mortal to only a critical wound. Grimnir snarled, if he got a chance that orc that got in his way would be his second target.

OOC:
Use my servo-harness's fyceline torch (equal to astartes flamer) to try to thin out the horde. Based on page 360 CRB rules, I would do 1d5+5 damage to magnitude

https://orokos.com/roll/977345 1d5+5=7

IC:

Seeing the relatively open (if cramped) terrain of the hall, Sapiens projected out the servo-arm with his fyceline torch, adjusting the aperture for a wide spray. A 30-degree, 20-meter cone of explosive flame spread out, the finer ficeline-based fuel burning like a thousand suns. It clung to their rough armor, burning far longer than one might expect and cutting through them...

DreadnoughtDad wrote:

Iron and Metal wrote:

I don't want to retcon because we are already at this point, but the plan was to meet them head on in the trap we had already set for them - not give up our attack position to head into the cramped hallway and wait for them to pass.

Even though we have the element of surprise, now we have to file back out and re-set up to bring the bolters/las cannon to bear etc.

Please file my complaint to Sheila in HR.

Initiative: 1d10+7 9

Sheila is on vacation, good luck with that.

Hey, my guy. You're up in the initiative.

Updated through Sapiens. If I dont hear from Dread for Ashmon I (or anyone who wants to) can go for him. Prior to Ashmon's roll, there is still a +30 size bonus against the horde. After Hydrako's frag there is a +0 size bonus. Also note that the penalties for attacking the main guys are also reduced by 10.

So after that would be the Nob.
He's got a Twin linked shoota. He firing at Juros.
Holy shit he hit, and without a roll even! Look at all those holes in his chest. Ouch!

Now its the hordes turn. They surge fourth. Everyone is now in CC.
The horde gets 2 attacks. One of them is wasted as they savagely tear Juros to pieces. Oh the humanity!
The other attack will hit Hydrako.
https://orokos.com/roll/977629
Hit. Hydrako cannot dodge/parry a horde, 29p2 damage, also a RF, so minimum 1 if no damage gets through armor
https://orokos.com/roll/977634
Terminator armor protects!

That brings it to Khol.

I don't mind rolling for AFK players. Team Leader shit. Plus, the semester is over now. I can breathe again.

Ashmon - free action switch to metal storm, light up the horde.
BS 39 +20 (range/hatred orks) +20 (signum/ganging up) +0 Semi +0 (horde size modifier) <79; rolled 84/2 DoF
Damage (1d10+7, pen 2): -
Horde Damage: -

Well that's disappointing

Fire bolt gun:
1d100+9: 92 [1d100=83]

ballistic attack: 1d100+9 92

IC
Once Grimnir announced his target, it was obvious what Khol needed to focus on. Though orks were in melee range of Khol, his focus cannot be broken once set. The sights on his lascannon zero in onto the warboss with the assistance of the Signum Link, aiming at the head.... And fired.


Attacking ork boss with lascannon: half aim +10(head), Signum +20, Penalty -30, Target Selection(no penalties to fire into melee)

https://orokos.com/roll/977667  2 DoS


5d10+10E Pen 10, +2 Mighty shot

https://orokos.com/roll/977668  50 damage in total

DreadnoughtDad wrote:

Fire bolt gun:
1d100+9: 92 [1d100=83]

ballistic attack: 1d100+9 92

A couple things to note:
- Glad you got a post in, but I went ahead and NPC'd Ashmon for the round (in the post above yours) to keep the game moving. We tpically abide by a 24 hrs posting policy when games are in structured time. If you were still on LINE, you definitely would have been tagged in the convo before this point as a reminder. It doesn't matter though, because we BOTH missed! Praise the Emperor.

- Rolling: You will never add anything to the d100. Your "to hit" roll will always be a static 1d100. The number you need to roll under is determined by a number of factors. I would re-read the core rulebook combat rules to re-acquaint yourself with the minutia. In this case, Ashmon has a Ballistic Skill of 39. You will then get modifiers based on the combat scenario such as type of attack (single shot vs semi auto for example), range, hated enemy, called shot etc. This will ultimately give you the number you need to roll UNDER for a success.

In this case it was BS 39 +10 (range) +10 (hatred orks) +20 (signum/ganging up) +0 Semi +0 (horde size modifier) = 79. As long as the d100 came up under 79, that would be a success and it's at this point you roll damage. Neither of ours did - failure.

insane935 wrote:

IC
Once Grimnir announced his target, it was obvious what Khol needed to focus on. Though orks were in melee range of Khol, his focus cannot be broken once set. The sights on his lascannon zero in onto the warboss with the assistance of the Signum Link, aiming at the head.... And fired.


Attacking ork boss with lascannon: half aim +10(head), Signum +20, Penalty -30, Target Selection(no penalties to fire into melee)

https://orokos.com/roll/977667  2 DoS


5d10+10E Pen 10, +2 Mighty shot

https://orokos.com/roll/977668  50 damage in total

3

Ok, no one has looked at this guy with a signum weapon yet. It was the heavy shoota that has the link. You still get a +10 for single shot attack and +10 for short range, so the bonus is not different.

https://orokos.com/roll/977758
He fails his dodge. He takes all the damage, crit takes him to 4 on the body. 4 Levels of Fatigue.

DreadnoughtDad wrote:

Fire bolt gun:
1d100+9: 92 [1d100=83]

ballistic attack: 1d100+9 92

You wanna throw some IC our way?

And, Lucius is up.

Sylphilis wrote:

Ok, no one has looked at this guy with a signum weapon yet. It was the heavy shoota that has the link. You still get a +10 for single shot attack and +10 for short range, so the bonus is not different.

Yo, we need to lock in some rules for this because right now it seems really arbitrary and not in line with the RAW at all. This should have been locked in before we spent Req on it - so maybe we should er on the side of player reward instead of penalty. Having said that, we have been using it incorrectly this battle.

Description of the Signum (CRB pg 173): "A signum is a sensorium and transmitter array that can be mounted on a Battle-Brother’s armour. It broadcasts enhanced tactical
readings to all members of a Squad, allowing them to benefit from the targeting data. While a character equipped with a signum is in Squad Mode, all characters in Squad Mode receive a +5 bonus to Ballistic Skill Tests. If the equipped character spends a Full Action
and succeeds on a Tech-Use Test, this bonus increases to +10 until the end of the next Round. The effects of multiple signums are not cumulative, but see the signum link below."

Right out of the gate, we have not been using it correctly. First, it is mounted on Sapiens' armor. It does not need to be activated unless Sapiens wants to pass a Tech Use Test to give an even bigger bonus. So, everyone gets +5 BS in all engagements as long as Sapiens is present and in Squad Mode, which he currently is.

Description of the Signum LINK (CRB pg. 173-174): (Note that many of us have this piece of tech) "A signum is a useful tool alone, but by equipping the targeting systems of one or more squad members with a signum link, they can make optimal use of the signum’s readings to achieve unparalleled acts of teamwork by forming a web of their interconnected autosenses. This allows all participating membersto make a concerted attack on the same foe, striking with a coordinated precision that makes their assault all but inescapable. To form a signum web, at least one member of a Squad must be equipped with a signum. One or more other characters in the squad then equip their armour with signum links. All characters in Squad Mode on the web (via the signum or a link) may benefit from the rules for ganging up on an opponent, regardless of whether they are engaged in melee or using ranged attacks, and with the benefits applying both to Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill. Characters in Solo mode gain no benefits from being part of the signum’s web."

As previously mentioned, Sapiens is our "one squad member equipped with a Signum." The rest of us who got links have those attached to our armor and not specific weapons. As long as we are in squad mode, we benefit from the Ganging Up Rules regardless of whether or not we are in CC or ranged combat. Nothing in the rules says anything about having to target certain enemies, etc.

TL;DR:
Sapiens' Signum is attached to his armor and constantly assessing the battlefield data. Those of us with Links on our armor are benefitting from that simply by being in squad mode (which is what I mother fuckin' said in the LINE chat, fools!) The outcome is a static +5 BS (or +10 should Sapiens test Tech Use every round) as well as benefitting from Ganging up (+10) which jumps to +20 if you have the "Double Team" talent.



EDIT: Given this static +5 BS, Ashmon's attack that I NPC'd would have hit the horde for 1 DoS.

Round Action
Free Action Equip Shard of Bekrin
Full Action Jet Pack Charge wounded Nob - No Attack of Opportunity per Squad Mode Defensive Tactic
WS 53 +20 (Charge) +20 (Double Team Signum Link) +10 (Hunter of Aliens) +20 (size?) -20 (to get to him) (+60 max -20) <93; rolled 3/10 DoS
Damage: 21, pen 5, Felling 2 (Ignores Natural Toughness x2)

https://orokos.com/roll/977790
https://orokos.com/roll/977791


IC: Lucius sees Juros go down and immediately radios Hydrako, Draco's resident Tactical Dreadnought. "Hydrako, get to Juros. Pull him out." He then moves to take advantage of the opening provided by Khol. Astartes took the heads off the snakes first and foremost, after all.

He burned his Jump Pack, expertly smashing through and passing by the horde before striking out with the relic power sword in his right hand.

Iron and Metal wrote:

Sylphilis wrote:

Ok, no one has looked at this guy with a signum weapon yet. It was the heavy shoota that has the link. You still get a +10 for single shot attack and +10 for short range, so the bonus is not different.

Yo, we need to lock in some rules for this because right now it seems really arbitrary and not in line with the RAW at all. This should have been locked in before we spent Req on it - so maybe we should er on the side of player reward instead of penalty. Having said that, we have been using it incorrectly this battle.

Description of the Signum (CRB pg 173): "A signum is a sensorium and transmitter array that can be mounted on a Battle-Brother’s armour. It broadcasts enhanced tactical
readings to all members of a Squad, allowing them to benefit from the targeting data. While a character equipped with a signum is in Squad Mode, all characters in Squad Mode receive a +5 bonus to Ballistic Skill Tests. If the equipped character spends a Full Action
and succeeds on a Tech-Use Test, this bonus increases to +10 until the end of the next Round. The effects of multiple signums are not cumulative, but see the signum link below."

Right out of the gate, we have not been using it correctly. First, it is mounted on Sapiens' armor. It does not need to be activated unless Sapiens wants to pass a Tech Use Test to give an even bigger bonus. So, everyone gets +5 BS in all engagements as long as Sapiens is present and in Squad Mode, which he currently is.

Description of the Signum LINK (CRB pg. 173-174): (Note that many of us have this piece of tech) "A signum is a useful tool alone, but by equipping the targeting systems of one or more squad members with a signum link, they can make optimal use of the signum’s readings to achieve unparalleled acts of teamwork by forming a web of their interconnected autosenses. This allows all participating membersto make a concerted attack on the same foe, striking with a coordinated precision that makes their assault all but inescapable. To form a signum web, at least one member of a Squad must be equipped with a signum. One or more other characters in the squad then equip their armour with signum links. All characters in Squad Mode on the web (via the signum or a link) may benefit from the rules for ganging up on an opponent, regardless of whether they are engaged in melee or using ranged attacks, and with the benefits applying both to Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill. Characters in Solo mode gain no benefits from being part of the signum’s web."

As previously mentioned, Sapiens is our "one squad member equipped with a Signum." The rest of us who got links have those attached to our armor and not specific weapons. As long as we are in squad mode, we benefit from the Ganging Up Rules regardless of whether or not we are in CC or ranged combat. Nothing in the rules says anything about having to target certain enemies, etc.

TL;DR:
Sapiens' Signum is attached to his armor and constantly assessing the battlefield data. Those of us with Links on our armor are benefitting from that simply by being in squad mode (which is what I mother fuckin' said in the LINE chat, fools!) The outcome is a static +5 BS (or +10 should Sapiens test Tech Use every round) as well as benefitting from Ganging up (+10) which jumps to +20 if you have the "Double Team" talent.



EDIT: Given this static +5 BS, Ashmon's attack that I NPC'd would have hit the horde for 1 DoS.

My counterpoint is that ganging up requires someone to be in position already. You cant get bonuses for tag teaming someone unless someone else is there and in position. You cant fire a laser guided missile without having someone already there painting the target with a laser ect ect. I mean the item says you can gang up at range, but someone needs to be in position for that already and shouldn't magically get a ganging up bonus when no one else is ganging up with them yet.

In any case, the Nob is dead.
Cassiel is next.

Yeah, dude. I agree completely. I don't think anyone is asking for a "magical" ganging up bonus, just one that follows the rules for the gear we req'd.

To use your laser-guided missile example, the entirety of the team, per your initial IC post, had exited the little side tunnel and faced the enemy. So, all of the Signum Links and Sapiens' Signum was facing the enemy. IE: they were being painted by the multitude of Signum Links already.

Nothing in the RAW states that specific enemies have to be targeted. In fact, it says the opposite: "all members in squad mode get a +5 to BS tests." Not "BS tests against a specific enemy that has been designated by the player."

OOC: I'm assuming this is a valid option based on the description.  BS is 74: roll is 9.  Even with a -30 that's at least 5 degrees of success.  If there's bonuses from signum and/or short range it should still light up the Shoota.  

IC: Cassiel ignored the buffeting from the orks around him.  His heavy bolter would clear a path.  He unloaded on the Heavy Shoota.  "You'll be honored to learn more about Imperial Dakka you Xenos shitstain," he muttered to himself.  

Heavy Bolter from CC against Heavy Shoota: 1d100 9 2d10+12 22 2d10+12 27 2d10+12 16 2d10+12 28 2d10+12 26...

1d100: 9 [1d100=9]
EDIT - Damage Below
1d10: 10 [1d10=10]
1d10: 9 [1d10=9]
1d10: 9 [1d10=9]

Corrected damage (looking at the wrong line on the Living Errata)
1d10+12: 20 [1d10=8]
1d10+12: 15 [1d10=3]
1d10+12: 20 [1d10=8]
1d10+12: 16 [1d10=4]
1d10+12: 18 [1d10=6]
1d10+12: 21 [1d10=9]
1d10+12: 18 [1d10=6]
1d10+12: 18 [1d10=6]
1d10+12: 20 [1d10=8]
1d10+12: 18 [1d10=6]
1d10+12: 16 [1d10=4]
1d10+12: 20 [1d10=8]

20, 20, 21, 18, 20, 20 PEN 5

Sylphilis wrote:

My counterpoint is that ganging up requires someone to be in position already. You cant get bonuses for tag teaming someone unless someone else is there and in position. You cant fire a laser guided missile without having someone already there painting the target with a laser ect ect. I mean the item says you can gang up at range, but someone needs to be in position for that already and shouldn't magically get a ganging up bonus when no one else is ganging up with them yet.

I guess in my mind as soon as the first marine starts looking at any one foe, horde, or mob, the CPU/AI in his armour is already "painting" the targets and feeding their details into the net for the rest of the squad (jump to 26 seconds and this is the picture I'm trying to convey. Signum/link is now updating to everyone as that marine sees the oncoming Necrons). I imagine reticles popping up as his helmet starts ID'ing all targets it sees through his eyes. It is then achieving both things we're trying to nail down; First person has painted the target(s), though not necessarily having to shoot a target first to get mark for the whole squad and hence everyone getting the flat +5 BS. Then if anyone starts to target the same foe they are getting the ganging up bonus.



scenario
Step 1; Hydrako is like lightening, acting first, sees the following baddies and attacks the Shoota getting +5WS:
Nob
Shoota
Horde of boys
Hive tyrant

Everyone, including Hydrako thanks to the added help of the enhanced CPU, now gets +5 BS/WS since all targets are ID'd for them and they are having locks pop up on screen

Step 2; Lucius attacks Hive tyrant, getting +5WS coz he's a chad
Step 3; Nob goes - no bonus
step 4; Cassiel shoots Nob. getting +5BS
Step 5; Juros shoots Nob, getting +10BS from ganging up instead of +5 because there's another marine engaging that target.
etc.
etc.

Hopefully that makes sense. (also the voice acting for marines in DoW has never been surpassed)

Cassiel blew off the shoota's head on the first shot. All that's left is the horde.

Hydrako wrote:

I guess in my mind as soon as the first marine starts looking at any one foe, horde, or mob, the CPU/AI in his armour is already "painting" the targets and feeding their details into the net for the rest of the squad (jump to 26 seconds and this is the picture I'm trying to convey. Signum/link is now updating to everyone as that marine sees the oncoming Necrons). I imagine reticles popping up as his helmet starts ID'ing all targets it sees through his eyes. It is then achieving both things we're trying to nail down; First person has painted the target(s), though not necessarily having to shoot a target first to get mark for the whole squad and hence everyone getting the flat +5 BS. Then if anyone starts to target the same foe they are getting the ganging up bonus.

That's what I was thinking, the first person marks the target when he shoots (or doesn't shoot, aim would count) and subsequent attacks get the bonus, even the PC who marked the target in the first place.

Hydrako wrote:

scenario
Step 1; Hydrako is like lightening, acting first, sees the following baddies and attacks the Shoota getting +5WS:
Nob
Shoota
Horde of boys
Hive tyrant

Everyone, including Hydrako thanks to the added help of the enhanced CPU, now gets +5 BS/WS since all targets are ID'd for them and they are having locks pop up on screen

Step 2; Lucius attacks Hive tyrant, getting +5WS coz he's a chad
Step 3; Nob goes - no bonus
step 4; Cassiel shoots Nob. getting +5BS
Step 5; Juros shoots Nob, getting +10BS from ganging up instead of +5 because there's another marine engaging that target.
etc.
etc.

Hopefully that makes sense. (also the voice acting for marines in DoW has never been surpassed)

The +5 is for BS attacks only. Since he's 'marked' you'd get the gang up bonus.

Ahh bugger, you're right. I misunderstood the bonus and the WS part.

However, I still think having to attack or aim a target, unless it's Sapiens doing the tech use thing, isn't in keeping with the RAW or how the imaginary CPU would assist in target acquisition. Again referring back to the video, it's painting all those targets the marine ISN'T shooting.

i.e. Hydrako walks first into the hallway sees all enemies in front of him, which unconsciously/automatically causes the Link to kick on and mark them for the rest of the squad like in the video, and he acts as normal without losing actions because the CPU has done its job and freed up his brain for combat.

And that's me spent on the link discussion. I'll live with the outcome from here on

Syl wrote:

That's what I was thinking, the first person marks the target when he shoots (or doesn't shoot, aim would count) and subsequent attacks get the bonus, even the PC who marked the target in the first place.

Once again, this is not what the description says at all. At no place in any part of the description does needing to aim/shoot or any action need to occur to get the +5 bonus because the signum/link is attached to the armor of the Marine and constantly on. It's not a police body cam that needs to pop on when they unlawfully shoot a civilian again.

This is like saying a Drone needs to shoot it's missile payload before it can aim. This line of logic makes no sense at all.

If we need encounters to be more difficult then let's make them more difficult by making them dynamic, the actual geography matter, planning matter, X Y Z. But let's not Nerf gear we've req'd just because.

Free action draw chainsword
Swift Attack horde
https://orokos.com/roll/977956 = 5 vs 71 (+10 size, +10 HoA) = 8 DoS = 4 Mag dmg

IC to follow in a bit

Iron and Metal wrote:

Syl wrote:

That's what I was thinking, the first person marks the target when he shoots (or doesn't shoot, aim would count) and subsequent attacks get the bonus, even the PC who marked the target in the first place.

Once again, this is not what the description says at all. At no place in any part of the description does needing to aim/shoot or any action need to occur to get the +5 bonus because the signum/link is attached to the armor of the Marine and constantly on. It's not a police body cam that needs to pop on when they unlawfully shoot a civilian again.

This is like saying a Drone needs to shoot it's missile payload before it can aim. This line of logic makes no sense at all.

If we need encounters to be more difficult then let's make them more difficult by making them dynamic, the actual geography matter, planning matter, X Y Z. But let's not Nerf gear we've req'd just because.

I'm not trying to nerf the gear. The gear doesn't make any sense to me. You get bonuses for ganging up even though your the only one attacking the target?

Here is how I read it.

Signum
+5 BS to all Astartes with a Signum or a Signum Link who are in squad mode

Signum Link
Allows concerted attacks on the same foe for Astartes on the Signum 'network' and in squad mode
All get bonuses for ganging up on the same target regardless of whether they are in melee or ranged  (I don't think you get ganging up bonuses on ranged attacks normally so this seems to be the main benefit here.)

So
When on the signum network and in squad mode
Everyone gets +5 BS
Everyone gets ganging up bonuses when attacking the same target for both ranged and melee attacks

We're talking about tech 40k years in the future, so it's okay if we don't 100% understand how powerswords and promethium work, but it always helps to have an analogy.

A signum link isn't like a laser sight for a rifle - you aim it and point it at a target and everything flies in a straight line. It's more like those 3d laser scanners that they use to recreate detailed 3d models of Cathedrals and such. It's bouncing lasers in all directions, analyzing the return time to accurately Guage distances and obstacles. The rest of the squad is passively benefiting since this info is communicated in real time. These types of laser systems can even map through obstacles like jungles to 'see' the ground below.

If it is identifying everything that could be an obstacle and confirming the right target in the fog of war it's going to be easier from any angle to make sure your shot flies true.

deaddmwalking wrote:

We're talking about tech 40k years in the future, so it's okay if we don't 100% understand how powerswords and promethium work, but it always helps to have an analogy.  

A signum link isn't like a laser sight for a rifle - you aim it and point it at a target and everything flies in a straight line.  It's more like those 3d laser scanners that they use to recreate detailed 3d models of Cathedrals and such.  It's bouncing lasers in all directions, analyzing the return time to accurately Guage distances and obstacles.  The rest of the squad is passively benefiting since this info is communicated in real time.  These types of laser systems can even map through obstacles like jungles to 'see' the ground below.  

If it is identifying everything that could be an obstacle and confirming the right target in the fog of war it's going to be easier from any angle to make sure your shot flies true.  

100% This.

Syl wrote:

You get bonuses for ganging up even though your the only one attacking the target?

As long as you are in squad mode: yes.

Iron and Metal wrote:

Syl wrote:

You get bonuses for ganging up even though your the only one attacking the target?

As long as you are in squad mode: yes.

I don't think thats right...

Everyone gets ganging up bonuses when attacking the same target for both ranged and melee attacks

You're right, or at least I can see this needing closer examination.

We're constantly getting a +5 BS for the Signum's targeting/battlefield data being fed to all members in squad mode. Should two members attack the same target, regardless of WS or BS, they get ganging up (or double team if they have it).

I can live with that.