CH. 1: Character Creation

Aptitude systems, +/- characteristics, Homeworld/Background/Role, same as DH2. Here we'll cover the specifics as pertains to each rulebook's alterations to character creation, and how we fit them in here.

Here is what I think would work best:

1st step race:
This changes your static number when rolling for stats and may provide a few traits and abilities (Sm geneseed stuff) but nothing else.

2nd step Homeworld:
This is pretty much kept as is, giving you most of your a single aptitude as well as your betters stat roll mods. Sm homeworlds will determine the chapter they hail from.

3rd step Background:
This is where people pick the background, this is the one that will get a bit confusing with SM as it will seem similar to picking a race. I would suggest a single astartes background which gives them their a single aptitudes and skills. Doing it this way you could also make a human from say, baal homeworld, who is not astartes but maybe a chapter serf or admin bureaucratic guy who keeps the buisness between chapters and the imperium as a whole type PC's.

4th step Role:
Same as is for humans. Needs work for specific SM jobs. I think this should cost xp for the SM jobs and would limit their starting xp instead of just limiting what they have to spend. Im not sure if the role types should cost different amounts between them, however?

Unfortunately, I dont see much stock in a BC game with these rules. There's too much differences between deity worship and alignment and all that.

Most of this is just accommodating Astartes as viable for dh2 rules. But Im very interested in the major xenos races as well.

Ideas?

Xenos needs to be a complete thread entirely. At the very least, we need to solidify Astartes. Once that’s done, then move on to alien races.

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Sylphilis wrote:

Unfortunately, I dont see much stock in a BC game with these rules. There's too much differences between deity worship and alignment and all that.

Most of this is just accommodating Astartes as viable for dh2 rules. But Im very interested in the major xenos races as well.

Ideas?

I like your suggestion but before pressing on we should ask it is also fits with OW, RT etc... we should start out with a template that broadly fits all and then refine as we go imo.

I think it can still work for BC we 'just' need to decouple alignment from xp advances. While we're making a unified system there are going to be some rules that only apply to Astartes or Guard (perhaps, not familiar with OW?), so alignment could fall into the same boat. Space Marines will have things like squad modes and cohesion or are thoughts on doing away with some of whats unique to each game?

Starting XP variance by old system, Ex. Guardsmen starting at 1000, Acolytes at 1500, etc.

Murcurie wrote:

Starting XP variance by old system, Ex. Guardsmen starting at 1000, Acolytes at 1500, etc.

Are you saying that it should stay that way or that is what it was? Personally, I like a low starting XP. Like 600 for tough-strongs (Astartes, Psykers, etc.) and 1,000 for normies (standard humans, tau, eldar, etc.) The benefits should be well enough from PC creation and really players should feel like they are earning their XP through roleplay/encounters/hindrances.

I assumed we would retain the stronger characters starting with more xp. I don't know how we could differentiate characters' strength differences, aside from allotting them different xp amounts. How do we show a guardsman to be weaker than an acolyte? Should they be?

Now that I think about it, less or more starting XP is only a one-time deal. The way to regulate it would be for Astartes and stronger backgrounds to have one less aptitude.

That way over all they will be spending more XP than standard character types.

Aptitudes is where we will regulate it.

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I'm not sure I agree with using aptitudes to regulate the power differences between Humans, Aliens and Astartes.

If humans get to many aptitudes 'everything' is cheap which devalues the aptitude system. Looking at it the other way around if Astartes get to few aptitudes it erodes their abilities to have interesting builds - they will become very generic.

Personally I think having a boosted starting xp works if the group is a mix of human, alien & astartes. If the group isn't mixed; so in a game where everyone is guard or whatever it doesn't matter.

If I was playing a mixed game of Human and Astartes (a Black Crusade type game is the best example), I'd want a little boost. With the approach you've suggested any kind of parity will still be distant horizon.

I agree, having too many or too few is bad for obvious reasons. I am talking about one aptitude less.

Pros: it is a permanent way to ensure that hugely powerful characters (due to traits and high characteristic starting modifiers <--- this is my definition for "powerful" starting characters) cannot gather skills/talents/further characteristic boosts at the same rate as less powerful characters.

Cons: I really don't see a huge con for having one less aptitude other than a player couldn't build their ideal PC as fast as they would like. So, higher costs for certain buys.

Customization is still the goal and it is still feasible with this implementation; players with specific builds in mind would simply need to "save up" xp for a bit longer.

Carn wrote:

With the approach you've suggested any kind of parity will still be distant horizon

I'm not sure I agree. Astartes traits, for example, make equality impossible right at PC creation. That is kind of the point. I am not looking to create a parity between PCs. If Astartes and standard humans or kroot or Orks were equal, then that is when I see them all becoming generic.

No, in my opinion they need to not be equal to be unique, but because of that they also must be balanced so as less powerful creatures can load up on more useful or eclectic skills, talents, cool shit.

I am not against a boosted starting XP - but what should it be?

Im thinking an starting xp penalty for astartes, 1/2 of what a normal human has.

In a mixed group having one less aptitude (to a degree), or less starting xp still essentially equates to having more experience points to spend... as per the current system which I think works fine.

On aptitudes Jeff; how would your idea work for xeno that fall within the middle ground of Astartes and Humans, like say Eldar? Do they start with one less aptitude too (they may be a poor example, but hopefully you get my idea).

My vote would go to the current system - its simple and works and gives everyone a level playing field at the start of a game. How much xp in a mixed group that amount is doesn't matter at this stage.

Eldar may be fast, but they are still rather fragile in a fight.

The same can be said of the Tau, except they have no super traits.

Eldar are no more or less fagile than humans though right? But they'd get unnatural agility, enhanced senses trait etc... these things are all worth something.