Rather LONG aimed "Black Crusade + Dark Heresy 1" Game. . . [CLOSED]

Howdy to all the WH40K lovers here on the Forum. . .

I was ALWAYS enamored of the 40.000 Ambiance (even tried to kitbash a rather PATHETHIC adaptation of the OLDEST Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay of 25+ Years ago for the "Dark Millennium" !!) and was happy ENOUGH when FINALLY Dark Heresy was released by Black Library Games. . .

While COULD have been done better, and the "Transition" of Fantasy Flight Games proprietary had done some damage, the subsequent products were "Good Enough" with Material from BOTH Rogue Trader and Deathwatch that I strived to ADD to Dark Heresy RATHER than as "Stand Alone Independant Systems". . .

Only War was a product that I found rather lacklustre as the "Sacrificial Companion" mechanic was quite cumbersome and JUST Dark Heresy, with the various Career Paths of the Imperial Guardsmen to represent a "Elite Squad" of Catachan "M.A.C.V. S.O.G." Jungle Commandos or Cadian "S.W.A.T. Military Police" and "Oceanic Waterworld" Stormtroopers as the WH40K equivalents of "U.S.Navy SEALS". . .

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But it was with Black Crusade that I FINALLY found the "Perfect WH40K" Roleplaying style; Baseline Humans and Astartes in a BALANCED ENOUGH setting; flexible Skill-Talent Rules; the MANDATED possibility of "Doing What You Want" (albeit in the rather wide limits of the one's own Patron Chaos God Portfolio !!) and the "Final Option" of "Game Win" of becoming an IMMORTAL DEMIGOD Demon Prince Of Chaos (rather than the "Lofty Ideals" of "Dying in Emprah's Service" or needing 100% Cybernetization / Dreadnought Entombement when Rejuvenats Treatments fail !!!). . .

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The ONLY defect that I found was the rather convoluted, randomic, INEQUAL "% Resource Acquisition Mechanics" that I found JARRING even from the Rogue Trader setting era. . .!!

When a Black Crusade Game UTTERLY wrecked when:

1°) Player 1 (very good roleplayer, but TOO STICKLER for "My Character's Background is SACRED") with a "Queen Bee" Aristocrat Courtesan of Slannesh ROLLED LUCKILY a "Ancient Terminator Armour". . .

2°) While Player 2 World Eater "Long War Veteran" Tactical Astarte was UNLUCKY to have SUBPAR "Corvus Armour" and Junk-Bolter. . .

3°) Their Characters Background was YET on confrontation levels and reached Game-Breaking Limits when the Slaaneshii was ALWAYS pecking on the Khornate (who was constrained by CAMPAIGN compact aims to NOT IMMEDIATLY behead the bitch) with the hints: "Abandon the Skull-Throned Fool, Join the Legions of Pleasure and the coveted Terminator Suit is Yours !!!". . .

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One could say: "But You as G.M. could have Handwaived the Failed Rolls by giving the Khornate some USEFUL Wargear and substitute the Slaanneshi Suit (that She could have NOT used anyway as was Astartes ONLY Cyber-Linked; was just kept as "Bedroom Trophy Rack") with some BETTER suited gear (another Player suggested a Demon-Possessed Navy Scimitar with a Dildo-Shaped Hilt           !!!)". . .

But WHAT USEFULNESS and Game-Balance there is in a Resource System if the G.M. have to handwave FREQUENLY the shitty rolls results to correct POTENTIAL Game-Breakers. . .??

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So I returned to the Dark Heresy "Money Cash" system and reasoned with the Players that Storm / Vortex denizens have NO USE for Imperial-Minted Currency. . .

But what ANY kind of SENSIBLE Kaos Cultist / Space Pirate / Evil Han Solo Adventurer need ALWAYS and could exchange as SENSIBLE rates. . .??

Ammunition was the answer. . .

So I created a "Tortuga Asteroidal Haven" kind of Storm Vortex Hub for Renegades of all stripes, where a Dark Mechanicus Guild faithful to UNALIGNED Chaos kept a scaled currency. . .

An Armor-Piercing "Stub Gun" Bullett (good for human-sized pistols, hunting rifles AND Autorifles; I reasoned it was EQUAL to the venerable "Wild West" .45 ACP bullett, fired by "Colt Peacemaker" revolvers, 1911 Semiautos, Winchester-Lever Rifles and "Tommy Gun" hybrids between Assault Rifles and Submachineguns) had the stats of 1d10+4 Damage, with an Armor Penetration of 3; was rated, as a SINGLE bullett value, more-or-less 1 Imperial Throne in "Space Credit Currency". . .

An Human-sized STANDARD CHEAP "Hand-Assembled by Blacksmiths" Bolter Shell (that Astartes fires IN LONG BURSTS in Boltguns that are rather "A.K.R. Kalashnikov Machinegun" shaped "Heavy Rifles") had, instead, 1d10+5 Damage, Armor Penetration of 4 and a value of ROUGHLY 10 Imperial Thrones of the Calixis Sector. . .

Heavy Bolter Shells are, in MY MIND, equal to CONTEMPORARY "Gyrojet Rocket Slugs" for 40mm. Grenade Launchers; a BASELINE Human Soldier could JUST fire ONE, Single-Shot from a Pistol Shaped "Sawed-Off" M79 Grenade Launcher, ONE from a M203 styled Underbarrell Launcher attached under an Imperial Guard Autogun or AT MAX have a 6-Shots, Revolver Drum "Riot Grenade Launcher" such as the ones used by Imperial Judge Arbitrators for "Crowd Pacification" (IF firing far cheaper "Tear Gas" Canister Slugs); a similar Caliber, for Astartes would INSTEAD fired, in Short Burst, for "Heavy Bolters" that are rather EQUAL to our world Mk19 Tripod Mounted Support Grenade Launchers. . .

"Basic" Heavy Bolter Shells FROM DARK HERESY have Damage 2d10, A.P. Value of 5 and were valued 50 thrones each. . . . .!!!

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So the "Chaos Renegades" Economy that I invented was 1 Heavy Bolter Shell (50 virtual "Vortex Credits") = 5 Boltgun Shells (10 "Credits" each) = 50 A.P. Stubber Rounds (1 "Credit" each; packed in practical "50 Bullets" Imperial Army Boxes; equal to "Rolled Wad of Cash" in My Game). . . . .!!!

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Sadly the Game NEVER started as a couple of My Gamers were rather "Volatile"; when FFG stopped producing Dark Heresy compatible stuff and went for their HORRIBLE INCOMPREHENSIBLE "Dark Heresy Mark 2" system My Italian Pals lost interests. . .

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So I propose HERE a Game based on Dark Heresy "Money" Wargear Value applied to the ROBUST, RELIABLE "Black Crusade" Rule System. . .

It would be NOT EVEN Kaos-Centered; maybe some sort of "Pirate-ish Rogue Trader" with onboard RADICAL Inquisition Teams and a couple of "Wayward Astartes" (NOT Puritan Deathwatchers, NOR Renegade Traitors. . . . .maybe a Dark Angel searching for Fallen traces; a Blood Angel searching a "Vampirism Curse Cure" in the "Imperium Fringes" or even a Space Wolf "Pilgrim" searching for the Relics of Leman Russ). . .

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I accept EVEN the WEIRDEST Xeno Characters, provide they fit with the Other Players (so Your "Blackbeard Ork Freeboter" has BETTER to behave !!!); Craftworld Eldar / Harlequins P.C. adapted from the playable Dark Eldar rules; "Wayward" Taus (NOT only clove-hoofed, blue-skinned "Rogue Adventurers" or "Gue'Ve'Sea" Mercs, but ALSO things such as Radical Mechanicus trying to HYBRIDIZE Human AND Tau technologies). . .

The EXTREMES that I want to go will be a PLAYABLE Necron "High Officer" (Non-Mechanicus "Full Body Conversion Cyborg" Rules from Rogue Trader; powerful YET unstable High-A.P. Energy Weapons), such as a Crypt Guard Commander sent on a "Merry Chase" by an UNBALANCED Necron Lord "Mad Pharaoh" and FORCED to cooperate with the "Organics" or a HUMANOID enough Tyranid Specimen that "BROKE" somehow from the Hive Mind (that is rather MADLY trying to absorb back the "Wayward Childe") with whatsoever "Weird Motives"
(Gained self-sentience due to Slann Old Ones Artifacts / Possessed by Chaos Lesser Demon / infested with Necron Mind Scarabs / Ate TOO MUCH Orks or Kroots !!!). . . . . .

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ONLY Limitations of Background is that STOPPED ALTOGETHER Caring for Warhammer 40.00 Lore at the "Fall Of Cadia"; the Game will be set ROUGHLY 10-15 Years BEFORE the "Cicatrix Maledictum" and "Papa Smurf" Guilliman waking up from the Tyranid-induced Nap !!!

If You are interested in this "Sandbox Canvassing" PLEASE feel fre to discuss EVERY possible idea of Yours (tthe WEIRDEST P.C. Concept You have in mind, the best it is !!!!!). . . . .

What about a Space Wolf neonate stuck is some half state 'wolfen' form (the thing they turn into when they take the geneseed)? His mind partly returned so he isn't a complete raging psycho path? Knowing he'd be rejected by the space wolfs he managed to survive on Fenris until he made it off world by stowing away on some ship.

A reject by most standards, fleeing to non-imperial space would make sense. He seeks a 'pack' to call his own. Some weird parody of the characters as you describe above he might fit in with.

He would be a noble wolf protecting his pack, but by normal standards a savage.

If this game becomes a goer we'd obviously need to think up some rules for Wolfen

Glad to have stirred Your interest Carnelian. . .

About "Lycanthrope Wolfen" from Fenris, I rather HATE the old trope of the "Hairy Lumberjack with Big Nails and Tusky-Teeths" from OLD vintage "Hammer" Horror Movies. . .

This could be the BASIC state of a WH40K Lycan-Astarte, but as an AVID Player / Storyteller of the old White Wolf "Werewolf The Apocalypse" Game (where "Hammer Beastman" was ONE of the FIVE Forms that a "Garou" was able to take) I will rather ALLOW the POSSIBILITY for a similar player to assume "Total CRINOS Battleform" (generic rough Humanoid frame; Bipedal posture; fully formed Wolf Head; Gorilla-styled clawed hands; digitigrade reverse-knee wolf's legs; very long tail for equilibrium; patches of long fur). . .

In a Human Sized Garou that was quite large (a muscular, athletic Human-Born warrior / sportsman / soldier of 1,80 mt. of height) that COULD reach EVEN 3,00 / 3,50 mt. of pure "Fur&Fangs Warmachine" (most MONSTRUOUS White Wolf Lycanthropes reached EVEN 4,00 mt. or MORE !!!). . .

As Astartes are NATURALLY on the 2,50 / 3,00 mt. of height, NAKED and WITHOUT a Powered Armour, then a "Crinos Space Wolf" would be something on the 5,00 mt. of height; with the YET enhanced Physical Capabilities of a Space Marine that MONSTER would be able to tear in hand-to-hand EVEN a Dreadnought Sarcophagus / Main Battle Tank and EVEN horribly devastating Close Combat Specialists (Lesser Kaos Demons; Tyranid Genoraptors) would have SOME ISSUES to face. . .

And SOME White Wolf "Garou Warriors" did NOT wade in Melee with MERE Claws & Fangs (magically razor-sharp as Monomolecular Blades) but ALSO with ENORMOUS Melee Implements (such as Claymore Zweinhanders in a SINGLE paw) . . . . .and in some cases, for the RARE "Civilized Technologically Apted" werewolves wielding ENORMOUS Firearms (Official Rules allowed a specially belted .50 Browning Autocannon fired as EASILY as a Human Sized LMG). . .

. . . . .

With the RIGHT-sized Weapons & Armour the "Fenrisian Terror" would be able to face (and have high % of winning) SINGLE-HANDED even the MOST devastating "Giant Melee Masters" of 40,000 Universe (Broodlord Hive-Tyrant with 4 Boneswords; Bloodthirsters of Khrone or OTHER Greater Daemons of the "Blade Duelist" type; Ghazkull-sized "Beast Ork Bozz" or even an Eldar Avatar of Khaine). . .

In a ROUGH translation of 40.000 Rules the "Space-Were-Wolf" could wield, in "Basic" size the biggest Weapons of an Astarte (a Terminator Close Combat weapon of the Grey Knights Nemesis Lance size; a Devastator Heavy Bolter or EVEN an Assault Cannon "Vulcan-Gatling") with TWO Hands and some issues of Balance and Movement. . .

BUT in the "Fenris Crinos Battleform" EVEN such MONSTRUOUS weapons will be wielded in a SINGLE paw (so a Nemesis Claymore on the RIGHT Hand and a Assault Cannon on the LEFT !!!). . .

The ONLY very SERIOUS issue will be the Protections; UNLESS the Character has been HEAVILY sworn to Kaos and OWN a "Daemon-Bound Traitor Marine Suit" (and this COULD NOT BE the idea of the payers' group, as RATHER "Independant Rogues" rather than "Aspiring Champions of Kaos" !!!) ANY kind of Suit will be RIPPED from the inside when the Character will transform. . .

ONLY a Scout Armour (essentially a Breastplate and Pauldrons, with small reinforced Plates of Ceramite on other parts of the body) could BE CARRIED from "Basic Astarte" size to "Crinos Terror From Fenris" (Warhammer Technology is SUFFICIENTLY advanced to allow Buckles and Armor-Straps of Spandex-Kevlar adjusting to sudden increases in size, EVEN so absurdily Big and Quick !!!). . .

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Issues of Toxic Gasses and Void-Faring COULD be solved with a specially prepared Gas-Mask + Rebreather Tank + Sealed Goggles that are YET sized to accomodate a "Big Wolf Snout" and have the aforementiond "Space Spandex" straps securing it to ANY sized/shaped Head. . . . .

Going nuts in a Black Crusade game?
Thats my thing. I just need to dig out my Black Crusade Rulebook and stuff.

I am Alpharius.

Alpharius is overrated!

The TRUE Power of the Legion was Omegon!!

Jokes aside, You would like to play an "Alpha Legion Master Infiltrator". . . . .???

If there are ONLY Astartes Players then I will allow You to have a Traitor Librarian / Tzeentchian Sorceror (as Alpha Legionnaires Skills and Talents are quite simed towards "Stuff of The Waychanger" !!) with Psi Powers NOT of the "Flashy Destruction" type, but rather "Telepathic" (mind reading) and "Fascination" (mass charme). . .

Thatvshould render the "Impersonation Tricks" of the Alphas quite powerful. . .!!

If instead there are Traitor Astartes AND Renegade Mortals then I WILL BE OBLIGED (for Game Balance) to have NO Sorcerer-Librarians (barring LUCKY Gifts of the Gods during Play !!) and leave "Psi Tricks" to the puny humans that vould NOT wear a Tank as Armour and carry around Ordnance of an Artillery Squad. . . . .!!!

Alpha Legion was just the first thing that got into my mind, cause im Just reading the 30k novels with 2 of my favorite Legions (Alphas vs Imp Fists).

The other fast shot idea would be some sort of mad scientist Warpsmith / rogue Techmarine or one of the Fallen.

Will see what other players will come up with caracters.

As we're now two and a bit closer to having a game I've a question on its theme. Are we playing a "Pirate-ish Rogue Trader" group, but with heretic type characters? I think we are but wanted to clarify.

Going on the assumption that we are I'm not sure my idea for a wulfen would fit in...

... an Orc Kommando however...

The Idea was to use "Black Crusade" as the System Core EVEN for Imperium Loyalists. . .

Perhaps Drunk Corsair assumed that ONLY Renegade Characters would fit in. . .

A "Kaos Ork.Kommando" would fit in.PERFECTLY!

In VERY OLD instances of WH40K.Background there were the "Khorne Stormboyz" weird hyper-militaristic Greenskin following the Skull Lord. . .

What was weird especially was the fact that (for Orks AND for Followers of the Bllod God) they were dour, fatalistic, grim, silent and RIGIDLY encased in PRECISE Military Drills that would have made Mordians cry in envy. . . . .!!!

Also they rather EXCELLED at Medium-Long Ranged shooting (with WELL MAINTAINED Plasma Weapons and Boltguns, BACK when Orks were TOO using Astartes signature weapons !!!). . .

They took Skull Trophies from Enemies killed at range, employing enormous serrated machete-knives. . .

A "Kommando" version of them will be EVEN.more dangerous. . . . .!!!

I love khorne!

Axtually i asumed it would be going a more heretical / non Imperium based game.
Cause Spaxce Marines going for their own goals instead of praying and fighting are more interesting characters which would fit in more with some exotics like Orks etc.

The IMPORTANT CORE of the Game Premise is a Game with Player Characters the MORE amusing possible for their Owners. . .!!

In Italy I'm prepping a Game in which Imperium Astartes goes along with "Basic" Mortals (well a PSIONIC Dark Heresy Inquisitor / Rogue Trader Ship Captain / Only War Stormtroopers Special Forces Officer will be ROUGHLY equal to NON-LIBRARIAN Black Crusade rules for Adeptus Astartes; either Imperium Loyalist or Legion Traitor Renegades !!). . .

Very GOOD rules for PLAYABLE Xenos PC are in Rogue Trader; especially the ones that (somehow) get quite well ALSO with Kaos Non-Zealots (Dark Eldar Pirates; Ork Freeboterz; Kroot Mercenaries). . .

Then i have to go trough the books again for some hopefully weitd enough caracter idea.
Dark Eldar Pirate / fallen Eldar Ranger sounds fun too.
I need to see what the setting will be if other players show up and then choose from my concept ideas.

Dark Eldars have COOL Rules and "Nice Hitech Gadgets" and a "Fallen Ranger / Harlequin-In-Training" (followers of the "Laughing God" transcend Commoragh AND Craftworlds) could be too a VERY Cool Character Concept. . . . .!!!

I have read the Dark Eldar Trilogy and the second novel was great with an Incubi acompanied by a Harlekin.

Then think about an Ex-Commorite that has forfaited the EXCESS of the "Dark Cityworld" and embraced the "Liberating Madness" of the Laughing God. . .

Could be a sort of "Science Fiction Elf" version of the Joker of Batman, Action Comic Version or preferred Movie Version. . . .!!!

How many we looking for to get this going?

Ideally from 3 to 5 Players, but if it takes too long to reach this number, then I will settle for even fewer players, such as 2 only. . .

No rush, just curious.

I'm definitely down for a hyper militaristic orc kommando follower of Khorne. It will be glorious!

ABSENTIA WARNING. . .!!!

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Unluckily for Me, a very, Very, VERY Serious PROBLEM of Health has arisen for a close Relative; things were CRITICAL ("Dead-On-Arrival Risk" Level of Criticalness) but are now A LITTLE MORE steady and perhaps-better. . .

. . . . .

If I disappear TOTALLY from the Forum is for this VERY SERIOUS issue. . .

Will check EVEN with the Smartphone but could NOT guarantee a STEADY check-and-writing. . .!!

Hope that GOD will be Merciful with My Family and the issue will be SOMEWHAT solved in the next, critical interveening days. . .

Thanks for Your comprehension. . .!!

I hope all turns out ok. Thoughts are with you.

Howdy to all. . .!!

FINALLY I'm able to sit down for half-an-hour to type some answers. . .

Had a VERY difficult past week, NOT for the health of My hospitalized close relative (that is INSTEAD recovering quickly good and VERY speedily, for a quite aging person !!) but for the fact that, being distant from "Homebase" some concerned siblings and relatives arrived and TRIED to help, in their way, that absorbed OVERMUCH my free time. . .

Hopefully things will be better, FAR FAR BETTER in the arriving days of THIS upcoming week, but I could NOT foresee time-consuming activities that are much-needed for helping and alleviating the issues of post-hospitalization, home-bedding and any other related stuff. . .

. . . . .

Things are positive, but some issues in the past have teached Me to NOT be TOO MUCH Optimist in ANYTHING. . . . .!!!

Closing this one down due to OP inactivity.